Mormons Rock

December 15, 2007

Inspired by feelings…

Filed under: faith,LDS,life,love,Mormons — by steffielynn @ 1:23 am
Tags: , , , , , , ,

I just got home from the movies, and I am so inspired.  People always knock me because of my “feelings”.  But today I remember how very grateful I am for those feelings!

Ok, I know it is only a movie, but it brought something out, something I sometimes forget. 

The Movie is called August Rush.  It’s about a boy who wants to be found.

It was so well done, so beautiful.

It made me remember when I was lost, and I knew that I would find my way one day, I just knew.  I didn’t know how, and I didn’t know when.  I just hoped, and lived and I waited….

Sometimes I think my feelings are a curse, because sometimes it’s hard to shut them off.  The happy feelings are wonderful, but the sad feelings are so terrible.  Both are so powerful.

But I would never want to trade them.  I know my Heavenly Father has given me a great gift.  I feel sorry for those who cannot feel, and those who only feel a little. 

I know this post is about a movie, but I feel insired to tell you that because of my feelings, I know there is a God, and without that knowledge I would be alone, and lost. 

He is there, and He does love me, and He does love you, I just know it! 

And I have been found.

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40 Comments »

  1. Here is a link to the movie trailer
    http://augustrushmovie.warnerbros.com/

    ***and just so you know the trailer doesn’t do the movie justice, you just have to see it…

    Comment by steffielynn — December 15, 2007 @ 2:06 am |Reply

  2. Steffie, I hesitate to share this here, since I do not want my experience mocked or slandered or denied, but I feel I should do so anyway – with a plea to everyone to not degrade or belittle what is very sacred to me.

    A while ago, while performing baptisms with the youth of our ward, there was one girl whose record only included a last name. All of the other pertinent information had been found, proving a girl had lived, but there was no record of her actual given name. In that situation, the ordinance can be completed for “Ms. ___________.”

    I do not “hear voices” in a typical way, but immediately upon completing her name in the prayer and before I performed the actual baptism, I sensed the following words – to the best of my recollection: “Now this girl finally will be known (in the Book of Life was my impression).” It literally brought tears to my eyes and a catch in my voice, which others in the room heard. It was wonderful to know that I had been a part of that individual “reclamation” project. I have had more powerfully overwhelming spiritual experiences in my life, but I’m not sure I have had one that was more tender or sweet.

    Comment by Ray — December 15, 2007 @ 2:35 am |Reply

  3. wow,
    This is why I love the gospel, Our Heavenly Father Loves us, everyone of us, and everyone of us will have a chance 🙂

    Thank you for sharing!

    Comment by steffielynn — December 15, 2007 @ 2:53 am |Reply

  4. Ray,
    I have another question beyond what is presented in the letter I just posted. I had plenty of dramatic supernatural and spiritual experiences before I was a Christian and was into the occult. Similar things occur with psychic’s and necromancers, so how can you tell the difference. Just because a sign or miracle occurs does not mean it comes from God…

    Comment by ColinSamul — December 15, 2007 @ 4:46 pm |Reply

  5. I agree Colin. That is one of the greatest dilemmas of the Gospel of Jesus Christ: How do you differentiate among emotions (that can be manipulated), spiritual experiences that are NOT from God and interaction with the Holy Ghost? Adding to the difficulty is that the Bible clearly teaches that signs will follow those who believe (including miraculous manifestations), but it also teaches that not all signs and “miracles” come from God.

    From everything I have been able to discover in scripture, and from what my heart tells me, there are a few ways I use to tell the difference.

    1) Does it help someone else in a very direct, non-self-serving way, or it is essentially nothing more than “a sign” – an attempt to “prove” something?

    2) Does it focus on a gift of the Spirit mentioned in scripture, or does it focus on “the spiritual” (palm reading, contacting the dead, communicating with spirits, etc.)?

    3) Does it result sometimes in unwanted outcomes (“God’s will, even when it isn’t our will”), or does it always result in what is wanted?

    4) Most importantly, does it prompt me to do good, or does it prompt me not to do good?

    The problem is that there are exceptions recorded throughout scripture when the Lord has used spiritual experiences for different purposes. Generally, these exceptions have been for prophets in huge, vitally important communal crises (e.g., calling down fire from heaven), but there are enough instances where it becomes almost impossible to tell objectively based on some kind of predetermined matrix.

    All I know in the end is that there are very real instances of being able to tap into a very real power, and all I can rely on is what I believe God has given me – a discerning heart.

    How would you answer that question?

    Comment by Ray — December 15, 2007 @ 7:15 pm |Reply

  6. BTW, I understand the danger of my response in many others’ eyes, but discerning and following what God wants you to know and do through the promptings of the Spirit is worth the risk. I believe God has given me a discerning heart, so I have to put my trust in that assurance and do and say what I believe He is telling me to do and say.

    Comment by Ray — December 15, 2007 @ 7:24 pm |Reply

  7. My husband once told me that I get too emotionally invested in my relationships. I say better too invested than not invested at all! What would it be like to not connect with people?! Disheartening and depressing I say. He can shake off any disagreement we have while it takes a while for the feeling to fade with me. I can honestly understand what you are saying there. It seems like those feeling have gotten in the way my entire life, helping me to carry around the feeling that I wasn’t good enough. But, like you, the time came when I truly welcomed the Lord into my life. And I have been so grateful for those feelings ever since because it helps me understand just how wonderful the Atonement is! I don’t even know you Steph, but I sure wish I did, because you are so loving and amazing!

    Fwiw, I’m not into sappy type movies, but I promise to rent this when it comes out on DVD!

    Comment by mo mommy — December 16, 2007 @ 2:57 am |Reply

  8. Thank you mo mommy 🙂

    It sounds like we are a lot alike! Without sadness and trials we would not know happiness. I’m grateful for my trials, even though sometimes I feel like I’ve had too much… but I have been blessed! There is always a rainbow after the rain 🙂

    You HAVE to see this movie! I read the reviews when I got home, and I was blown away at how negative people were. I will never ever trust a “critic”! They said it was too unrealistic. Well those people obviously have no imagination, and no hope. I think amazing things can happen, because my dreams have come true….

    Anyways, please everyone go see this movie, and then tell me what you think!

    And even if you wait a few months til it comes out on DVD come back here and tell me if it touched your soul!

    Comment by steffielynn — December 16, 2007 @ 3:34 am |Reply

  9. I had a bit of an epiphany tonight as I was in the middle of a normal, mundane activity – as often is the case. It hit me completely out of the blue – as often is the case. I’m not sure Colin will understand fully, but I share it with all of you in the hopes that it will explain a bit better why it is hard for me to describe how I am confident in my spiritual impressions.

    Colin, a common phrase in Protestantism that is unfamiliar to most Mormons is “in-dwelling” – but the concept is central to our faith. Since we never use the phrase, it sounds odd or strange, but it really is an integral part of our doctrine and ordinances.

    In Acts 8 there is an account of people who were baptized but had not received the Holy Ghost. Peter and John were sent from Jerusalem, and they gave these people the gift of the Holy Ghost by laying their hands on them. (vs. 16-17, particularly) Simon saw that the Holy Ghost was given through the laying on of hands and tried to buy that authority.

    When hands are laid on our own heads after baptism, we are told to “receive the Holy Ghost” – that He may be with us always. My epiphany was that the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost that we experience after baptism is our symbolic version of the “in-dwelling” of which Washer speaks in his video. He speaks of letting God into my heart so that it may be regenerated; we speak of opening a broken heart to the gift of the Holy Ghost so that He may enter it and be our constant companion, making us a new creature in Christ. In this way, we may be born again of water *and* the Spirit.

    You asked how I can recognize which of my feelings are of God and which are not. I gave a bit of an intellectual answer about my thoughts and impressions, but I failed to answer your actual question about my *feelings*. For that, I apologize.

    I truly believe that I have the companionship of the Holy Ghost in my life. I believe it influences and alters the very way I think and feel. Over the years, since I received that companionship, I have come to recognize how I feel when I am being guided by His light. I feel differently than I do about other things. Some speak of a unique burning sensation (from the baptism of fire), but I rarely feel that burning. For me, occasionally I sense words, but usually there is a certain, unique quality of peace that floods my heart and quickens my mind. I can’t explain it very well, but I recognize it when I feel it. When I wander from the narrow path, as Washer described so well, my ability to feel that type of feeling decreases – and it is just that withdrawal of the Spirit that usually prods me back to the path.

    Finally, because I have received this gift, I try hard to follow any feeling or thought that crosses my mind or my heart – as long as it obviously is not a “natural (fallen) man” inclination. I have come to trust that the gift of the Holy Ghost acting within me can prompt me to know and say and do things that I wouldn’t be able to know and say and do otherwise – and that sometimes it would be easy to dismiss or ignore them – or to take credit for them as “good ideas”. I have learned by the working of the Spirit within me to give the glory and credit to God for even those things that appear on the surface to be my own.

    In short, I trust my feelings because I truly believe that God has planted His Comforter in my heart – and that I can trust the fruits of that planting.

    Comment by Ray — December 16, 2007 @ 6:09 am |Reply

  10. Why was my post deleted?

    Comment by ColinSamul — December 16, 2007 @ 2:43 pm |Reply

  11. Hey all

    I am taking a bit of a break from posting here, and will for the next few days. My daughter was just married in the LDS temple yesterday we had a great reception but I am feeling a bit negative in regards to LDS attitude at the moment and I would be tempted to take it out you folks here. If you feel the need respond to this post please do it on my blog as this is way off topic for steffies.

    Steffie I took the link of your blog off mine, not because I don’t like it, but it occurred to me that I may attract a bit of an atheist or anti element and I didn’t want to be the source of sending more anti to this site, what are your thoughts to you want to be listed on my blogroll?

    Comment by coventryrm — December 16, 2007 @ 3:12 pm |Reply

  12. Coventry, what will we do without you? 😦

    I hope everything is ok, and I know that once you start a blog, it’s hard to keep up on others… also you really are not off topic, this is a post about “feelings” and you have expressed yours!

    Colin, I deleted the letter because you posted it twice. I asked you where you wanted it on the other post, but you did not respond (comment # 188 on the who is Jesus Christ post)

    Comment by steffielynn — December 16, 2007 @ 4:00 pm |Reply

  13. Oh,
    The post I made here was a letter to a mormon elder about how we know truth, it was very relevant to the whole issue of feelings… I guess I would want that one posted here.

    Also, I have a question a little off topic from what we have been debating. In light of Mormonisms view that there could be other gods and creations in the universe, what is your views on the UFO phenomenon? I am just curious, I’m not looking to paint you as whackos or anything it’s a topic I have always been interested in on the side.

    Comment by ColinSamul — December 16, 2007 @ 4:29 pm |Reply

  14. We’ve been called a lot worse 🙂

    My personal opinion, is that I believe there truly are worlds without number. I do NOT believe in aliens and UFO’s, but I believe that we are only a small part of a great Master plan. What exactly that is I don’t know. It’s so big, and it makes me feel so small, but it’s not crazy, really if you think about it why would God only make the us, why not more? If we say we are it, I think we are limiting God. Our scientists are pretty smart guys, but they have only scratched the surface. It’s amazing isn’t it?!?

    What do YOU think?

    Comment by steffielynn — December 16, 2007 @ 5:50 pm |Reply

  15. Steffie

    Why do you believe in worlds without number ? Have you always believed this or has someone influenced this on you ( LDS ) 🙂

    How come your personal opinion happens to be a Mormon belief/doctrine ?

    I can understand why you are thinking this , but it was this kind of thinking which caused Brigham Young to enforce multiple wives against their will to prepare for his own world(s) as God and King and Ruler !

    Where was their free agency ?

    Surely a loving God never commanded this 😦

    Comment by elder joseph — December 16, 2007 @ 6:44 pm |Reply

  16. ej, you said to Steffie, “How come your personal opinion happens to be a Mormon belief/doctrine ?” May I reciprocate with a rhetorical question? Why does yours NOT happen to be? It’s rhetorical; PLEASE don’t answer it. We all know why; I only ask to illustrate the absurdity of the question.

    “enforce multiple wives against their will” — Give it a rest. Hyperbole is rarely an appropriate response, and there is absolutely NO evidence that polygamy was enforced against the will of the women. Of course, there were terrible husbands, but that’s true even in monogamous and non-married situations. Every indication is that the Mormon women of that time, as a group, were every bit as dedicated as the men – and that substantially LESS than 10% of all members actually practiced it.

    So, give it a rest. Not everything is about polygamy, just because it’s your pet peeve. This thread is about following our feelings. Respect Steffie enough to focus on the topics about which she posts. We wander around sometimes on tangents, but you continually try to threadjack each post with a blatant 270 degree turn to leap to an entirely different page.

    I’m done with my rant now. 🙂 (I don’t know how to make an emoticon with its tongue sticking out, so the normal smile will have to do.

    Comment by Ray — December 16, 2007 @ 8:51 pm |Reply

  17. Colin, if God and angels count as extra-terrestrials, I believe in them. If not, I don’t.

    I believe in objects that fly in the air that people don’t recognize when they see them – so, in that sense only, I believe in UFO’s. 🙂 Otherwise, nope; we’d be enslaved or eliminated (probably) if there really were others with the technology to reach us from distant worlds. We’d certainly know about them, imo – unless they were God-directed beings who had been commanded to remain unknown. That possibility is so slight as to be totally implausible, I believe.

    I’d like to hear your thoughts, but I’m not sure I can request them given the way I just chastised ej. Oh, wait, Steffie asked, so it’s OK. 🙂

    Comment by Ray — December 16, 2007 @ 8:59 pm |Reply

  18. EJ,

    Why is it that I want to hug you and strangle you at the same time?!? 🙂

    Yes this has always been my thought, I have always thought and felt that there was more, just another example of how the church and my personal opinions flow so well. This is actually something I did not know until after I had joined. I remember talking about it at church and being so excited and saying “oh my gosh I already believe that! WEIRD!”

    I get excited a lot at church! I learn more and more everyday.

    But ej why not, if you believe in God why would you think that this is it? Do you think it MIGHT be a possibility?

    Comment by steffielynn — December 16, 2007 @ 10:58 pm |Reply

  19. Well I have always entertained the notion that they are the Nephilim from Genesis 6. Most early Jewish and Christian commentators seemed to believe that the Nephilim were fallen angels that took human women as wives, and that their offspring were some sort of supernatural giants. It didn’t just occur before the flood, but Genesis 6 states that it occured “after that time also”. We see evidence of this because the Nephilim are again mentioned in the conquest of Canaan and with David and Goliath. Also, the biblical text compares well with all the ancient legends of the greeks, egyptian, and native americans of where the “gods” came down and bore children with human women. These then became the Pharoah’s and other rulers and heros of ancient legends… However, I just entertain this viewpoint I do not hold to it as dogma…

    Comment by ColinSamul — December 16, 2007 @ 11:00 pm |Reply

  20. Steffie,

    ” I get excited a lot at church! I learn more and more everyday.”

    I found that after about 18 months I wasn’t learning anything new .It was the same thing recycled over and over .I did leave church with a stronger urge to do more for others and have more compassion. My experience has been positive and beneficial to me and those around me . I just felt that if I stayed any longer I might loose touch with reality.

    Yes of course I believe there is a possibility of life on other worlds ? but we don’t know .We just trust that someone knows more than us ! ie A Prophet . But I don’t believe they know any more or less than we do .

    The Mormon belief of other worlds comes from the passage in Hebrews Chapter 1 which has worlds mentioned .Its just an Interpretation . It could mean worlds as in Earth and Heaven 9 two worlds ) etc.

    You’ll find that there are lots of things in Mormonism that you happened to believe already and lots of things you didn’t happen to believe ( and probably have difficulty with ). But you will remember the ones that you happened to believe in and then the Mormons will say ” we learned in the pre existence ” and you’ll think its your spiritual memory coming through the veil ! lol 🙂 🙂

    Comment by elder joseph — December 16, 2007 @ 11:25 pm |Reply

  21. Colin, I have been fascinated by those passages every since I first read them. Great summary.

    Comment by Ray — December 17, 2007 @ 1:34 am |Reply

  22. So has anyone alse seen this movie?

    EJ you would like it!

    Comment by steffielynn — December 17, 2007 @ 3:00 pm |Reply

  23. Shiz was on his way to watch the movie but was abducted by a UFO. After many experiments and what appeared to be preemptive union dance, Shiz managed to escape in a single-manned droid-bot that immediately disintegrated upon his reentry. Shiz will try again next week.

    I am Shiz

    Comment by Shiz — December 17, 2007 @ 6:27 pm |Reply

  24. #23 just might be the funniest comment I have read on any blog for a long, long time. All that was missing was a reference at the end to predestination and free will. 🙂

    Comment by Ray — December 17, 2007 @ 8:02 pm |Reply

  25. I have to agree with Ray – That was great.
    Shiz, you is the shiz -LOL

    Comment by Ron — December 17, 2007 @ 8:14 pm |Reply

  26. EJ:

    “The Mormon belief of other worlds comes from the passage in Hebrews Chapter 1 which has worlds mentioned .Its just an Interpretation . It could mean worlds as in Earth and Heaven 9 two worlds ) etc.”

    Guess again:

    Moses 1:

    33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I dcreated them, which is mine Only Begotten.
    34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
    35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.
    36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.
    37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
    38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.

    Comment by MCQ — December 18, 2007 @ 9:12 am |Reply

  27. EJ:

    “But you will remember the ones that you happened to believe in and then the Mormons will say ” we learned in the pre existence ” and you’ll think its your spiritual memory coming through the veil ! lol :)”

    Mormons are not the only ones who believe in a pre-existence, EJ. Just one example: Plato taught that our idea of beauty is informed by a pre-existent reminiscence of having seen perfect beauty before coming to earth.

    Comment by MCQ — December 18, 2007 @ 9:17 am |Reply

  28. MCQ

    Guess again:

    Moses 1:

    Yes I am aware that Joseph Smith expounded on the odd biblical verse in his writings.

    He did the same with the Three degrees Of Glory , the same with baptism for the dead and many other things .Its just his opinion I reckon and you’ve all got it as sacred scripture .

    He was doing the same with the thief on the cross about being in paradise .

    He just took all the conlicts of belief of christianity/doctrine in his day and purpoted to clarify them .

    The result is more splits and welll over 100 different mormon sects as a result.

    Comment by elder joseph — December 18, 2007 @ 7:24 pm |Reply

  29. If you look at the History of JS, OC, and SR and when they really most likely met, you can also see why they clarified in the direction that they did. Pretty much follows what SR believed and was preaching doesn’t it?

    Comment by coventryrm — December 18, 2007 @ 7:35 pm |Reply

  30. That Joseph must have been a genius! Look at all the people he fooled!

    Comment by MCQ — December 19, 2007 @ 2:45 am |Reply

  31. EJ, your last comment is actually a non-sequitr. You said that the Mormon belief in “worlds” comes from one word in Hebrews. That is patently false. You can’t backtrack now and say “Oh, yeah, Joseph was just expounding on Hebrews in Abraham.” Abraham is entirely new ideas, unglimpsed in Hebrews.

    Oh, and Coventry, “Clarifying” biblical verses does not explain all of Joseph’s preaching and writing, especially with regard to Sidney. He was a pretty standard Campbellite. You can’t explain Joseph Smith simply by saying he met up with Sidney and Oliver. They never imagined most of the things Joseph revealed, and the P of GP is the best example of that. You all are the first to insist that it’s crazy stuff. Now you’re trying to tell me it’s all just Sidney and Oliver “clarifying” the Bible. You can’t have it both ways. Nice try though.

    Th simplest explanation of Joseph’s revelations, and the one confirmed by the Spirit, is that they came from God.

    Comment by MCQ — December 19, 2007 @ 2:56 am |Reply

  32. “well over 100 different mormon sects”

    99% of which no one has ever heard of.

    Comment by MCQ — December 19, 2007 @ 2:57 am |Reply

  33. Colin, do you mind if I ask you again how you judge your feelings?

    Comment by Ray — December 19, 2007 @ 5:27 am |Reply

  34. I didn’t say all. It can all be explained when you put everything into the mix not just one component. Bottom line it is quite possible and even more probable that JS, SR and OC could have come up with what they did with all that was available to them, then the actual story that you want to believe in. The improbability is what your spiritual witness is there to compensate for.

    Comment by coventryrm — December 19, 2007 @ 6:07 am |Reply

  35. Ok, Coventry, but I’m just saying that, to me, (given what we know of these individuals, their history and apparent abilities) it’s just as improbable that Joseph came up with these doctrines in conversations with Sydney and Oliver than that he got them from God.

    To do all that he did, Joseph would have to be the genius of all geniuses, in writing and speaking and making up lies that would fool many educated men and women for many years, even beyond his death. And yet, these people don’t describe elaborate lies being told to them, they describe him telling them that they can know for themselves, and that they can govern themselves.

    Those aren’t the words of a controlling svengali. They are the words of a man who trusts God to take care of His flock, which He did. If Joseph was a liar, his church would be a small unkown sect in the middle of nowhere, because no one would have received any spiritual witness of his teachings, and only those with self-interest in it would have believed. But millions have received spiritual witnesses, Coventry, as you know. And they still do.

    Comment by MCQ — December 19, 2007 @ 10:21 am |Reply

  36. Respectfully that is your opinion, I believe history tells quite a different story and Joseph would not have had to been a genius at all, then you would have to put many fiction writers in that same category that have written more concise and much better works than the 3 claimed major ones claimed by JS. That Joseph Smith genius theory crumbles and so many levels.

    If Spiritual witness is the test and followers and growth then you would have to go with the Koran and Mohammad then.

    “According to statistics Islam is the fastest growing faith in the United States, Canada, and in the World. This is happening despite widespread misconceptions and negative media portrayal of Islam. The following are quotes from prominent US, Canada, and UK news sources regarding the phenomenal growth of Islam:

    “Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people…” Hillary Rodman Clinton, Los Angeles Times, May 31, 1996, p.3

    “Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion.” ABCNEWS, Abcnews.com

    “Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country.” NEWSDAY, March7,1989, p.4

    “Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States…” NEW YORK TIMES, Feb 21, 1989, p.1

    “Moslems are the world’s fastest-growing group…” USA TODAY, The population referance bureau, Feb. 17, 1989, p.4A

    “Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America.” TIMES MAGAZINE

    “Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!” CNN, December 15, 1995”

    The other stats I looked at were that LDS was on the list of high turnover religion, stats show that for just about every convert you also lose one and that would only be the ones that actually ask to have their name removed.

    History has example after example of very smart intelligent people joining all sorts of sect and organizations. I think it is only fair to use your spiritual witness to defend what you personally believe when you use it as an argument for the validity for your organization as whole there are many examples of ones that are growing much faster and have more people claiming the same. The growth trends are also mostly because of birth rates by in large people just tend to stay with and have emotions, feelings and spiritual witness to the things that they were taught to be true as children.

    Comment by coventryrm — December 19, 2007 @ 3:14 pm |Reply

  37. MCQ
    “That Joseph must have been a genius! Look at all the people he fooled!”

    Look at all the people that get fooled by Pyramid marketing schemes and scams like Amway and look at all the people who get fooled by the Stock exchange or real estate at the top of the market etc .

    Look at all the educated people in Scientology or Moonies .Success , wealth or education is not a guarantee against man’s folly.

    It’s not That Joseph was a genius , its more to do with he fact of Mans Folly and gullibility .This is what Con men exploit .

    The book of Abraham is just a hoax from Joseph Smith , supposedly translated from the writings of Abraham written with his very own hand ? which turns out to be just common Egyptian Funeral Papyri which the LDS Prophet seer and Revelator David O McKay didn’t know how to translate himself at the time and handed it to BYU Egyptologists .

    I’m not surprised Pyramid Marketing Schemes flourish throughout the world . There is always someone ready to believe it .As many leave , new ones are recruited .Just like Mormonism , JW’s , Scientology , Moonies etc .

    Comment by elder joseph — December 19, 2007 @ 4:55 pm |Reply

  38. Coventry, I wasn’t talking about growth trends. At various times, many different religions have been “the fastest growing.” Including ours. But that’s irrelevant. I’m talking about the known abilities of Joseph, the people around him, the time he had available to him, the people that believed and followed him, and his behavior and words. When I add those things up, I think it is more improbable that he was a liar than that he was inspired. That’s not the basis of my testimony, it’s just my answer to people who think it’s improbable that Joseph was telling the truth. And of course, it’s just my opinion, after reading the available histories.

    Comment by MCQ — December 19, 2007 @ 5:42 pm |Reply

  39. Has anyone gone and seen this stinkin movie yet? I want to know what you think!

    Comment by steffielynn — December 20, 2007 @ 3:53 pm |Reply

  40. Shiz is a little gun shy. Someone does not want Shiz to see this movie.

    I am Shiz

    Comment by Shiz — December 20, 2007 @ 9:34 pm |Reply


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